BUTTIGIEG: “I also don’t believe that we can go back. I don’t think there’s going back to Obama, I don’t think there’s going back to Clinton. I think that the world we’ve been in, the American political world we’ve been in, from the day I was born, has been blown up."
HEILEMANN: "And blown up by what? By Trump, by --"
BUTTIGIEG: "By its own failures which culminated in Trump. Look, if the old way worked, something like Trump would never have been possible."